• Also, My Conflict with Bola Ige
CHIEF AYO ADEBANJO recently marked his 90th birthday. He fielded questions on his life and the state of the nation.
Congratulations on your recent 90th birthday sir, how do you feel about the reality of that old age? What is the secret behind your long life?
I don’t know why God bestowed on me the grace. It is not that I am that righteous, I appreciate that and I know that it is only the grace of God that I am still here up till today. You exercise, you eat well and without the grace of God you are zero and that is the cause of the celebration, to appreciate God for his mercies.
What fired your interest in politics?
I don’t know because when I look back at my career, I have always taken part in politics out of conviction. When I was in the school, I was an avid reader of West African Pilot published by Nnamdi Azikiwe. There were many columnists, including Zik, who fired our zeal. I don’t know if any of you have heard about the West African Pilot?
Yes we have. Copies are at the National Library…
Those were in the colonial days, those were the columns you looked out for. I committed them to memory. Zik and Herbert Macaulay really awakened the political savour of Nigerians towards anti colonialism. However, I have never contested for any position.
Was it by choice, if so, what informed it?
Well you see, I was a pioneer Organising Secretary of Action Group, when Chief Awolowo propounded the theory of good governance. That we could be better than the white colonialists and that if we gained independence, ‘this is what we will do, what it will require us.’ By the time I worked so close to Chief Awolowo, I became so attached to his ways. As organizing secretary in our own days, we would go to each village to educate people what our party stood for, what they intended to do for them. This is what you get, free education, free medical services, your roads and others’ will be tarred and we would say if you don’t do it, don’t vote for us when we get back to you. So there was a bargain.
At 90, you are still active, it is generally believed that as an Ijebu man, you must be an Ogboni. What is your secret?
It is the grace of God. Nothing more. My father lived up to 105, so people always say longevity is what papa left for me. There is nothing to worry you, I have no security here, go to my village I don’t have any security. Concerned people would say papa, these people are bad oo, I would say I don’t know anybody, I don’t have contract with anybody, I have not cheated anybody. What you cannot say in the public don’t say it in the private.
I also learnt you love exercises. Would that be part of the secret?
If you do exercise, eat well, sleep well , that is an attempt to live good, without the grace of God, you cannot live long.
Are you afraid of death?
I scorned death since 1996 when I was 68, when we were arrested after the death of Kudirat Abiola. We were arrested as her killers! They took us to Adeniji Adele Police Station and because I was coming from office, I took my suit, and they were asking us about Abiola. Abiola is not my cup of tea. I was shocked. Was it because of Abiola’s wife that you arrested us? I asked. Whether we like it or not Nigerians voted for Abiola. One man has no right to say it is not valid, it did not count.
You supported Buhari in 2007, many critics wondered: ‘Was that not a mistake?’
No. I will tell you why. There were Atiku, Yar Adua and Buhari. Buhari promised to restructure and we considered him as the cleanest amonst the three candidates. We had no choice and we said ok, we have chosen the best, on principle, that is why when you are talking of APC saying they are going to do restructuring I say, enough, Buhari is not a man of his words because why we supported him at that time was restructuring. When Tunde Bakare supported him and Odumakin, it was on the basis of restructuring. Tinubu too said they are going to do restructuring in their manifesto, the rest is history. Nobody can take us for a ride again, if you are talking about restructuring, do it before election. I just want to say that I am a democrat.
We have long realized that the moment you established this country on purely federal principle as we had before independence, if they do federalism today, I don’t care who is the president of this country. We need a true federalism, not what you call Nigerian factor put to it. In America, Canada, every other part of the world, every federating unit grows at its own pace, if not for that we would not have gone far in the western region. We had plenty of money in the western region, and then we introduced free books as a result of additional income, these are all elements of federalism. So, if federalism is adhered to, things will be better for us. See Abuja is there, I can count how many times I have been there. How many Americans have you heard has visited Washington? What concerns them is government at their local levels. The most important thing that concerns you is health, agriculture.
The question of staying together is to be established until it was made to change in 1966
Go and study the constitution and even the former governor of Niger was asking about restructuring. It is the function of the federating units that will determine whether you are federal because the function of the state governor has been defined, we have exclusive, we have concurrent lists. In the First Republic, the regions were autonomous and independent and the federating units were complimentary to the federal government and that was why when Awolowo was the premier before the military came, we had our own embassy in London.
So apart from restructuring, what other reasons made you not to support Buhari again?
I tell you. He is a dictator. And I said it at that time. I said he is a dictator and he punished somebody through by passing a retroactive law to kill those who were accused of drug pushing. Also, he is a religious bigot. Coming from that part of the north, what do you expect? By training as a solider that was why they came into office in 1983, he does not read newspapers, it was Idiagbon that read. Those were the things I said in 1985 (about Buhari/Idiagbon regime). Many of you were not born then because am talking about 30 years ago. All of these people shouting now are under 50 so you cant appreciate what am talking about now (the editors who went to interview him were above the age he mentioned!).
Let’s take you back a bit, if you have now seen the actual Buhari, but what happened during the June 12 time that Abacha was able to deceive you and other Afenifere leaders? He reneged on his promise to stay for a brief period?
Abacha said “we will do what you want,” that’s why people like Babatope, Jakande and others joined his government, because the military said they would stay for a brief period. When Abacha reneged, we asked our people there to come out. What I am enjoying today is that whether you like me or not it is the same thing I stand for over the years. Those who are supporting Buhari will ask me, what you stand for,
Your critics accuse you of being too rigid and not compromising…
The moment you compromised there is no principle.
Some critics reason that in a federating unit like Nigeria with diversities, that there should be reasons for compromise and flexibility…
I can’t compromise on some fundamental principles.
How would you react to this story that politicians come here to tap from your experience and run away after?
How did you choose them in the first place? How many of you know your councilors? This is because the governor says, you go there, you go to be in charge of that place. That is the beginning of the whole thing. When Raji Fashola was to be the governor, people said we don’t know this man, he is not from our place. Did you know Fashola before, you can’t remember? Somebody told them and he imposed it on them. Then at a public function, the same Fashola was asking that there should be no imposition. His principal, however, said if there was internal democracy you wont be governor! When Fashola was there, to bring Ambode, no, no, we wont agree, we wont agree. When he was doing that for Fashola, you were there as a cabinet member, now why are you saying no?
Were you ever tempted to change camps?
There was no cause for it because there was a reason I was in Awo’s camp.
Let’s talk about your closeness to Awolowo, many people said you are very close to him that you prevented desperadoes from getting at him…
In what form?
The word is too big in our mouth sir, critics said you were his chief thug!
That’s what critics said, they don’t know me. Such critics can use any language, out of ignorance. Go and read my book. Many of them know me. When I was a lawyer, I became close to Awo, when I was organising secretary in his constituency, when and where does thuggery come in? Or because you know his dos and donts? I was his organising secretary whenever he went to campaign in any constituency. You know what the people want, what were the peculiarities of this locality. So by the time Awo would come, I would just hand my findings over to him. He would speak on those things and the people would be happy. Of course, we kept notes of such promises and Awo fulfilled them.
As a strong disciple of Chief Awolowo, what would you have done, looking at how things are in Nigeria now? What is your advice to the present government?
This government couldn’t have done much as you are seeing, because if the government is a listening government, if you are a stubborn government, it would have still been the same thing. Awo told Shagari that the economy of the country was about to hit the rocks and Akinloye said he was the prophet of doom. All these things we have gone through that is why I just laugh, we have heard it before. When we make projection about reality, they say we are economists of doom…
Did Awolowo have a research unit, how was he able to get all those facts ahead. He reeled out statistics to Shagari then?
Awo had foresight. He had grassroots boys, resource people. He will tell you that a leader must have ability to bring along able people to discuss policy, how do you implement it, implications, go and give me paper. The free education you are talking about was prepared in the past, but it was a collective thing, they agreed, they formed a committee on how we were going to implement it, and that became the manifesto of the party. That was what we were trying to introduce to these new governors of AD and they felt we wanted to control them.
Did they actually ask for any support from you?
Even the pieces of advice we were trying to give them, they pushed them aside, you journalists should remember to ask them why they now feel we are wrong.
Let’s talk about your relationship with the late chief Bola Ige. What actually caused your rift?
There is no ill will rather than that I am a stickler to party principles. What started it really was when he went to contest for the Presidency. There was Falae, the moment Ige also said he was going to contest, I said the primary election had to be held. I reminded him that in 1979, the contest was between him and Pa Emmanuel Alayande. Elders of the party felt that since Alayande was Ige’s old school principal, he should allow the old man to run. That’s is one of the most things you don’t know about Awolowo. He was a team player. He bowed to general agreements. Ige insisted on primary election and he won. That is how we started primaries, because there was a language they use these days: it is either governorship or nothing but if you are not a governor we can give you another thing. It is only those who are close to the party and who knew the origin that it is either governorship or nothing or we offer you something else, they did the election and Ige won.
So for it to be fair and free elections, we set up a committee, the selection took place in my office – Western house. If they were going to choose members, we said Ige shouldn’t be there, you are one of the candidates. Ige said No, I am the deputy leader I would be here. Are you following the background? Why I mentioned the name of Omole, Ige objected, Iam giving you this to show you how we fared and that’s how he fell out with me because I insisted on certain principles. But it happened, he objected to Omole, that was how Professor Bolaji Akiyemi became a pillar of that body and then another person from Ilesha. What am telling you is that I have told the story when he was still alive. I was so shocked that he did not win the primaries. When OBJ chose him as minister, I was one of those that opposed it. When we were talking about this national conference and the same way we are talking about restructuring, the late Ooni of Ife had cause to say that if this is the position then there is no problem, why don’t you tell the president? I said well, I cant beg the president to come and see me but if he calls us, whether he likes me or not he is the president, so he said, if I ask you to go and meet Baba, I said I will go, he is the president of the country. So Oba Sijuawde arranged a meeting of all and I told Baba Adesanya, lets go and tell the man what he’s supposed to hear.
On that day something happened, the prejudice that Obasanjo had against me he demonstrated it. When we got there, he welcomed Baba Sijuwade, he welcome Baba Adesanya and left me out. I didn’t complain. In the course of the discussion when he said, but the way you treated Bola Ige is not good. When we were going to conduct that primary, we made sure that he was aware. I said Mr President, go and ask Ige, when he was going abroad, Baba Adesanya told him he should not go, we wanted to conduct the primary. And he told us he had to go for medical reasons.
• This interview, originally entitled “Ayo Adebanjo: My Problems With Obasanjo, Bola Ige” was recently puplished by TheNEWS. Read the remainig part here: http://thenewsnigeria.com.ng/2018/06/ayo-adebanjo-my-problems-with-obasanjo-bola-ige/
